My status: According to Amina Wadud, "To claim full or perfect knowledge of God's will is to challenge the singularity and uniqueness of the Divine perfection." So, sapa claim, "ahh! aku dah belajar agama cara betul macam amalan Rasulullah" and "kau bersubahat dalam maksiat, nanti ramai berdosa ikut engkau" isan illustration of that statement.
Syrol Akmal Shaharom Like the status but 'unlike' amina wadud...
Kamilah Kamil kenapa unlike dia?
Syrol Akmal Shaharom to 'conservative' in Islamic way, know that you cannot force human reasoning to completely comprehend the divine, it is divine for that reason. Amina Wadud is known for her conservative and literalistic point of view. She tried to find equality defying sunnah once,
Kamilah Kamil okay, you can help me out in this, my ISU is about Amina Wadud. What else do you think of her?
Muhammad Shahrul Izwan amina wadud nie bkan yg jdi imam solat jumaat kat new york ke thun 2005....
sgguh controversi mnah nie
Kamilah Kamil yes. dia jadik imam. tapi tu pun sebab imam masjid tu suruh. minah tu tak expect pun dia kena bagi khutbah hari tu, datang-datang terus orang tu suruh dia bagi khutbah and then tetiba imam tu bg dia imamkan solat, or so she says in her book.
Syrol Akmal Shaharom I have no comment on her statement since I heard different versions of the event. But one thing for sure, she IS a very conservative woman to my taste.
Kamilah Kamil what is conservative to you? how do you define conservative?
Nawwar Miza in my opinion, i'm not really fond of amina wadud -.- she is somewhat sesat jadi imam perempuan :/
Muhammad Shahrul Izwan yes....i agree with nawwar
Kamilah Kamil aku rasa dia bukan sangat nak implement wanita should be imam solat jumaat from her book, but it's a symbolic of women leadership, something like that. aku tak habis lagi baca. aku take a neutral stand on this. ada certain things cam aku susah nak terima apa dia cakap, but some of her ideas are commendable.
Kamilah Kamil regarding her solat jumaat ploy, i'm going to have to investigate the primary sources, as to whether or not her action is justified or otherwise.
Nawwar Miza there is no such thing of feminism in islam. memang ada hak perempuan but everything is actually equal for men and women in islam based on each's capability. but she is trying to defy sunnah like syrol said. :/
Kamilah Kamil she justifies her stand as not defying sunnah but a reinterpretation of the sunnah since there is no such thing as rewriting sunnah. tu aku cakap aku kena investigate. aku tak habis lagi baca, but so far, that's what she said. okay, to help me out, what is this sunnah that you say she defied? bukan aku nak kata aku ni ignorant sunnah apa, but to clarify matters since kau lagi ada ilmu sal benda ni.
Kamilah Kamil its not a matter of feminism as of now, its a matter of whether or not her reinterpretation of the sunnah is justified. because in her fight for feminism, (actually, dia sendiri pun tak ngaku feminist, as she doesn't want her fight to be thought of as in-line with the western feminists, but she calls it "gender-inclusive Islamist") she reinterprets the verses. and according to her, reinterpretation is justified for several reasons:
Syrol Akmal Shaharom This is getting out of hand, stop this fiasco
Kamilah Kamil aku bukan nak back-up dia cuma aku nak share apa yang aku baca and what you guys think of it, and syrol, you haven't answered my question.
Kamilah Kamil
Syrol Akmal Shaharom Like the status but 'unlike' amina wadud...
Kamilah Kamil kenapa unlike dia?
Syrol Akmal Shaharom to 'conservative' in Islamic way, know that you cannot force human reasoning to completely comprehend the divine, it is divine for that reason. Amina Wadud is known for her conservative and literalistic point of view. She tried to find equality defying sunnah once,
Kamilah Kamil okay, you can help me out in this, my ISU is about Amina Wadud. What else do you think of her?
Muhammad Shahrul Izwan amina wadud nie bkan yg jdi imam solat jumaat kat new york ke thun 2005....
sgguh controversi mnah nie
Kamilah Kamil yes. dia jadik imam. tapi tu pun sebab imam masjid tu suruh. minah tu tak expect pun dia kena bagi khutbah hari tu, datang-datang terus orang tu suruh dia bagi khutbah and then tetiba imam tu bg dia imamkan solat, or so she says in her book.
Syrol Akmal Shaharom I have no comment on her statement since I heard different versions of the event. But one thing for sure, she IS a very conservative woman to my taste.
Kamilah Kamil what is conservative to you? how do you define conservative?
Nawwar Miza in my opinion, i'm not really fond of amina wadud -.- she is somewhat sesat jadi imam perempuan :/
Muhammad Shahrul Izwan yes....i agree with nawwar
Kamilah Kamil aku rasa dia bukan sangat nak implement wanita should be imam solat jumaat from her book, but it's a symbolic of women leadership, something like that. aku tak habis lagi baca. aku take a neutral stand on this. ada certain things cam aku susah nak terima apa dia cakap, but some of her ideas are commendable.
Kamilah Kamil regarding her solat jumaat ploy, i'm going to have to investigate the primary sources, as to whether or not her action is justified or otherwise.
Nawwar Miza there is no such thing of feminism in islam. memang ada hak perempuan but everything is actually equal for men and women in islam based on each's capability. but she is trying to defy sunnah like syrol said. :/
Kamilah Kamil she justifies her stand as not defying sunnah but a reinterpretation of the sunnah since there is no such thing as rewriting sunnah. tu aku cakap aku kena investigate. aku tak habis lagi baca, but so far, that's what she said. okay, to help me out, what is this sunnah that you say she defied? bukan aku nak kata aku ni ignorant sunnah apa, but to clarify matters since kau lagi ada ilmu sal benda ni.
Kamilah Kamil its not a matter of feminism as of now, its a matter of whether or not her reinterpretation of the sunnah is justified. because in her fight for feminism, (actually, dia sendiri pun tak ngaku feminist, as she doesn't want her fight to be thought of as in-line with the western feminists, but she calls it "gender-inclusive Islamist") she reinterprets the verses. and according to her, reinterpretation is justified for several reasons:
Syrol Akmal Shaharom This is getting out of hand, stop this fiasco
Kamilah Kamil aku bukan nak back-up dia cuma aku nak share apa yang aku baca and what you guys think of it, and syrol, you haven't answered my question.
Kamilah Kamil
1. "No community will ever be exactly like another. Therefore no community can be a duplicate of that original community. The Quran never states that as a goal. Rather the goal has been to emulate certain key principles of human development: justice, equity, harmony, moral responsibility, spiritual awareness and development. Where these general characteristics exist, whether in the first Muslim community or in the present or future communities, the goal of the Quran for society [and piety] has been reached." Fazlur Rahman (Wadud, 199)
Kamilah Kamil 2. Ali ibn Abi Talib, to Khawarij: "The Quran is written in straight lines between two covers. It does not speak by itself. It needs interpreters, and the interpreters are human beings." (Wadud, 197)
Kamilah Kamil
3. As believers in the faith tradition of Islam, we cannot rewrite the Quran. As a historical record of works revealed by Allah to the Prophet Muhammad, those words are unchangeable. In addition, those words have always been subject to multiple meanings and to various interpretations. The goal of interpretation is to unveil the meanings that reflect the spirit, the very idea that Allah, the Ultimate, Who is ultimately unknowable, intends for human agents to apply. They must be able to unveil these meanings in a manner most reflective of the principles of the message. (Wadud, 204)
Kamilah Kamil This is also in-line with Tariq Ramadan's ideas of ijtihad and reinterpretation of the Quran
Kamilah Kamil in my perspective, she is not deviant to Islam as you claim that she is, so, in order to help my research, I ask you to justify why do you, in your opinion, think that she is deviant to Islam in her actions as you claim her to be? I do agree that her action to imamkan the jum'ah prayer was tad bold and unprecedented and I do think that it is more appropriate for woman to not freely mix during jum'ah prayer, but I do commend her for her other ideas which I think are relevant for Muslims in this day and age.
Kamilah Kamil
memang ada hak wanita dalam Islam, tapi persoalannya sekarang, adakah hak itu DIIMPLIMENTASIKAN secara sebetulnya dalam masyarakat. Maybe dalam konteks Malaysia is not so bad, so, kita sebagai wanita Muslim di Malaysia ni senang je cakap, dalam Islam sudah ada solusinya, but what if in her community, it was a different situation? Perlembagaan Malaysia tak sama dengan US punya constitution. So as the demography and culture. What may work here, may not work there. And si minah ni pun pernah je duk Malaysia. She's one of the core members of Sisters In Islam and mengajar dekat UIA. Since most of those people counter her arguments for gender reform in Muslim communities, they used mostly secondary sources yang dipetik daripada ulasan orang instead of actually understanding the interpretation of the Quran themselves. Si minah ni bukannya buat statement kosong, she spent twenty years kaji Quran and the interpretationS by the ulama's semua tu and make her own deduction. I can bet you ramai orang Islam sendiri pun tak pernah nak kaji Quran and in-depth. No wonder kalau non-Muslims yang kaji Quran lagi tahu isi kandungan Quran daripada orang Muslim sendiri. If you can present your own research about the Quran and the interpretation to counter her arguments which are also based on that same thing, you have my undue respect, though I may not fully agree on what you argue.
Mat Kamil Awang 1. sunnah adalah perbuatan dan amalan rasulullah. maka bila dikatakan tak ada sunnah yang membolehkan wanita mengimami solat jumaat itu kenyataan yang betul kerana rasulullah seorang lelaki. secara biologinya adalah mustahil untuk jadi sunnah.
2. jika melalui sunnah tidak ada, maka kena tengok dalam Quran, ada atau tidak ayat Quran yang mengatakan wanita tidak boleh mengimami solat jumaat?
taken from somewhere: "There is no question that the vast majority of jurists excluded women from ever leading men in prayer. Many jurists, however, permitted women to lead women in prayer, if no male is available to lead the prayer. Some jurists said women may lead women even if a male is available to lead as long as women lead only women.
The Qur'an itself does not mandate that only men be allowed to lead prayer. The Sunna is indecisive on the issue. There is evidence that the Prophet on more than one occasion allowed a woman to lead her household in prayer--although the household included men--when the woman was clearly the most learned in the faith.
Up to the fourth Islamic century, there were at least two schools of thought that allowed women to lead men in prayer, if the woman in question was the most learned. In such a case, the men stood to the side so that they were not praying behind the woman imam. However, these schools (al-Thawri and Ibn Jarir) became extinct. So it is fair to say that since the fourth century all schools of thought did not allow women to lead men in prayer."
http://www.islamopediaonli
Mat Kamil Awang 1. sunnah adalah perbuatan dan amalan rasulullah. maka bila dikatakan tak ada sunnah yang membolehkan wanita mengimami solat jumaat itu kenyataan yang betul kerana rasulullah seorang lelaki. secara biologinya adalah mustahil untuk jadi sunnah.
2. jika melalui sunnah tidak ada, maka kena tengok dalam Quran, ada atau tidak ayat Quran yang mengatakan wanita tidak boleh mengimami solat jumaat?
taken from somewhere: "There is no question that the vast majority of jurists excluded women from ever leading men in prayer. Many jurists, however, permitted women to lead women in prayer, if no male is available to lead the prayer. Some jurists said women may lead women even if a male is available to lead as long as women lead only women.
The Qur'an itself does not mandate that only men be allowed to lead prayer. The Sunna is indecisive on the issue. There is evidence that the Prophet on more than one occasion allowed a woman to lead her household in prayer--although the household included men--when the woman was clearly the most learned in the faith.
Up to the fourth Islamic century, there were at least two schools of thought that allowed women to lead men in prayer, if the woman in question was the most learned. In such a case, the men stood to the side so that they were not praying behind the woman imam. However, these schools (al-Thawri and Ibn Jarir) became extinct. So it is fair to say that since the fourth century all schools of thought did not allow women to lead men in prayer."
http://www.islamopediaonli
Nota kaki: Aku tidak melihat kepada tindakan Prof Amina Wadud mengimamkan solat Jumaat, aku melihat kepada IDEAnya.
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